Throttle Return Springs

[David W]

Just a query - I've check the CAMS website and can't see any reference to this.

Q -Does the throttle need 2 return springs so if 1 fails the other will function?

Assume Yes to the above - Does the 2nd return have to anchor in a different spot?

[gen mk 1rs2000]

david .. have you ever had to deal with "scrutineers" ?
if so can you tell what is their objective ??
to satisfy the rules ??? or actualy care for
a competitors safety & well being ?????
and maybe a healthy outlook for this sport in general ?

[Roger Miller]

They don't recognize the springs, in side-drafts, as such and therefore yet another spring is needed.

[maxrs]

A spring will work between the rail and the linkage.
A second return spring on twin sidedrafts is a smart move.
Not a nice feeling accelerating, while pressing hard on the break.

[gen mk 1rs2000]

TWO SEPERATE THROTTLE RETURN SPRINGS
THAT THE SCRUTINEER CAN PHYSICILY SEE
AND TOUCH

forget what type of engine / car / carby / fuel inj etc etc
its absolute bulllshitt
just what engineering standards do they apply ??
spring rates ? leverage ? motion ratio ?

am i allowed to say ?
scrutineering by fellow competitors
is far better than "outsiders"

[ozstang65]

This works, no scrutineering knockbacks to date. End of standard throttle cable = 1 spring, the other you can see underneath.



Edit: there's actually one per carby:

[gen mk 1rs2000]

ozstang i
i would fail that setup due to
the plastic pretend rod ends you have
just waiting to be melted
then jamming the webers
fully open
i dont care if you had
200 lb springs off the back of a datsun !
the cams ruling about this has been a crok of
szhit since before webers were invented

i have had plenty of arguments with wally hat
scrutineers who usualy own a torana
with SU carbs

but to give further example of this
just look up the FIA ruling
for a grp 2 or grp 4 escort
???????

[356mal]

the cams manual says
schedule B
7 : fitted with a return mechanism which in the event of any throttle linkage failure will close each throttle;
it does not say you need 2 springs
I have had this discussion / argument many times

mal

[gen mk 1rs2000]

mal
i still have a cams manual from
1987 & nothing has changed

exactly how ? the throttle / butterfly wiil
close is never mentioned
its a classic case of
removing the blame from themselves
to avoid any liability

[ozstang65]

[ozstang65]

And I'll add that the most throttle jams I have ever seen have been due to incorrect geometry jamming components. No amount of extra return springs will fix that.

[356mal]

steve
the 1972 manual says the same !!
I cant find one older than that !!!
mal

[Gary P.]

[356mal]

garry
its not my manual
I borrowed it of you !!!!!!!
dont you remember ??????

mal

[shaunb]

The key wording has always been closes "each throttle or butterfly" and yes they don't accept the internal springs in Webers.

If you run a linked type throttle arm they will usually accept one extra spring running off the link arm. I would think ozstangs set up would be accepted by nearly any scrutineer as it is attached to each separate throttle shaft (one spring per carb).

I have never ever seen the plastic rod ends or shaft supports fail that ozstang has used (I use the same shaft supports but linked arms).

Interesting the wording on this was changed a couple of years ago, it used to say "in the event of the throttle linkage becoming detached" etc. In the 1973 CAMS manual that was buried in the boot of my mk1 when I bought it, there isnt even anything mentioned about linkages, springs etc.

Steve, you clearly need some therapy to deal with your scrutineer issues!

Dave, can you really ever see yourself doing any event in the white car?

Cheers

Shaun B

[MK1_Oz]

A spring weighs a few grams. Just throw them all in there for piece of mind, forget whether the regs do or dont need them

[David W]

[Danny M]

this has been fun to watch but as usual Scott are you trying to get the award for the replica of the Sydney Harbour Bridge with all that crap on there. What was the goal how to make some thing too complicated!
Having two drop rods is just asking for the carb't to go out of sync and to have plastic joints is just asking for trouble as they wear and get sloppy when hot! Using a couple of decent quality spherical joints maybe but you still can't beat the standard Weber balance linkage with a tweak as they NEVER go out of balance. All the overhead bar is for is for altering the cable to throttle shaft ratio. As an example go and look at an open wheeler and see if they have any crap on top of the carbies, a good one wont.
And Roger having the return on the opposite end of the shaft is a pain in the arse as they wind up the carb shaft sending the two butterflies out of line when under tension
As far as scruntineers go the rule used to be two springs but it's not not now and you could always sort out a scrutineer especially with 48DCOE's and their exposed springs and on the others by pointing at the one spring you really should have to return the cable and bell crank by asking them if "they like sex and travel"


Danny

[Anthony Tanzer]

[ozstang65]