NICE MK2 AT GATTON SPRINTS TOMORROW Stay with her Johnny

[ulsterman]

Hi guys, This is a picture of a nice MK2 at Gatton this weekend.

[Anthony Tanzer]

Some video tomorrow night would be nice!

[Gary P.]

Sorry Tanz, no video but a few photos. The car looked fantastic on track and in the pits. Congratulations Bruce!!

[MOOSE]

Can't beat a nice looking Roth replica :-)

[Gary P.]

Sorry John. This ones a bit closer for us to enjoy

[MOOSE]

[Anthony Tanzer]

Nice photos, nice car! I see a photo of it also made the Gatton Street sprint Facebook page.

[Danny M]

Sorry don't get replica's

[group5]

If it was a replica it would have a BDG

[Gary P.]

Mooses car is closer to a replica. This is a "lookalike"

[LWB Rally Team 1981]

GROUP 4 RS1800
It seems that some people in your group may not be aware that the factory built around 35 cars of various specificatios as Group 4 Homologated RS1800 Escorts. These were built from new shells pulled off the production line that underwent a huge amount of engineering to bring them up to the group 4 homlogated specification. There were changes from one shell to another depending, for example, if they were to be African cars, tarmac cars or gavel cars.
The body shells were done by private contractors to the required specification, Gartrac, Gomm and David Sutton Cars are some examples. RS2000 cars were not Group 4 and were not Homologated with Group 4 modifications but were run by the works on very limited occasions as Group 1 cars Homologted with baby atlas axle, rear drum brakes, rocket box and IDF Webers, these were German shells. An RS2000 didn't have any of these half cocked Group 4 stuff we sometimes see at events here and claimed to be something they never were.
The factory assembled the cars at the works plant after recieving, the already prepared components, into the cars for each application and of course ran the competitions and did development work.
Ford also supported various national teams who built there own cars to works specification in several countries throughout the world (Australia was not one) In NZ it was Masport, there was a south African company, Clarks in England, David Sutton cars and European outfits.
Then the next tier was privateers who were registered competitors with Ford Rally Sport, who warranted develoment and parts support from local Ford Dealers under the guise of the Ford Rally Sport division. Parts and information was provided to these competitors and in some cases new show room cars, that would be stripped, and built up to class specifications, Group 1, 2 and 4. We were involved in the building of 17 of these cars.The car that Ari Vatenan won the world championship in was built and run by David Sutton cars as a private entry in the world rally championship , which was one of around 15 cars built by them in parralel with Ford and after Ford withdrew support, to develop the new Group B cars which were subsequently banned.
At the time that this was going on, there were many different developments taking place outside of Ford. An example is an RS1800 I saw in tarmac specification fitted with an FVC engine and I must say quite spectacular in the British events I saw.
So we have a Group 4 body shell by say David Sutton or Gartrac.
A contractor built ZF 5 speed gear box, with varying ratios.
A contractor built rear axle from another car altogether.
A Brian Hart built engine developed by Cosworth using a Brian Hart alloy block.
Electrical systems and looms built by a private contractor.
A privateer team hiring the car off Ford, or in alot of cases, loaned and owned by Ford.
Sponsered by an outside company, and in the case of Rothmans negotiated by David Richards, Aris co-driver and subsequent owner of Pro-Drive.
This is the only way these big companies can get around their internal politcs to make all this happen.
So a car built today with an original spec heavy duty body shell using reverse engineered parts from the various manufactures in the UK, by a person involved in building the cars when they were new, from brand new shells and some Ford sourced, more recient similar components is a look alike or a replica.
That would mean every Escort RS1800, other than the 35 or so factory assembled cars, are look alike replicas
I bet David Sutton would like his world campionship winning car to be described as a replica by a few very poorly informed "experts".
As far as I am aware only two works RS1800 Escorts came to Australia and were run by what you could say was the Ford Dealer Team, and although they had limited success apart from winning the Australian Rally championship only one car remained.

The Oxford Dictionary definition of replica is : rep'lica, n Duplicate made by original artist of his picture etc; facsimile, exact copy.

Or maybe: Rep'licate, v.t (rare). Repeat; make replica of, fold back.

Anyway, if you are all truely enthusiasts of the marque and are keen to promote your interest maybe a guest speaker at a group meeting, if you could attract one, could help you alot with real information and may deminish the effcts of jealousy, if that is infact the problem.

[Gary P.]

Thanks for reminding us of all of the detail. Not quite sure what the point is that you are making

[gen mk 1rs2000]

some very intersting reading LWB

just out of interest wich 2 works cars came to australia ??

[Neville Bertwistle]

Thanks LWB Rally Team 1981 for the highly detailed text.

I think the issue is not whether its a replica, lookalike or just different, it's about the workmanship that has gone into the build. And Bruce's car looks fantastic and is to be congratulated on the quality of the build.

It's same argument of putting a non Ford motor in an Escort. I personally don't like seeing rotaries and SR20's but that doesn't mean you can't appreciate the effort someone has put into making their car the way they want it.

Car looks great whatever pigeon hole you want to put it in, and as long as Bruce is happy with it then that's all that matters

[Gary P.]

I totally agree Nev. As pointed out by "LWB" there was huge variation in the spec of Group4 cars in general. I was only referring specifically to the Rothmans cars. I was pretty sure that I made it obvious that Bruces car is very well built and presented and fantastic to watch. But I am sure that Bruce would be the first to admit that it is not a Replica. It varies in many ways from the car that it is presented to "look like". Most noticably in the engine fitted.

John's("Moose") car is closer to a Replica of a Rothmans car in detail but of course is also missing the correct engine ( and no doubt, the budget to get one!!)

Danny just doesn't agree with Replicas of any historic car, not just Escorts.

[gen mk 1rs2000]

as far as colour scheme replicas go
i could say ??
dannys car is an exact copy of a lemon
&
garys car is an exact replica of a pumpkin

[bmw02rally]

In that case I'm building a replica of Bruce's old colour scheme car....

[micko]

im sure if u look at the engine in that fantastic mark 11 escort is out of a ford focus or ford ranger its the new and improved bda

[Gary P.]

[bmw02rally]

Its a replica of a lookalike.....