Page 2 of 3

PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 9:58 pm
by Roger Miller
Bruce Phillips wrote:Well I'll probably end up using Total Seal as the F%@*ing guy who machined the block appears to have misplaced the rings.... Why do simple things have to be so hard?



http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Total-Seal-Gaple ... dZViewItem

PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 10:34 pm
by Bruce Phillips
Thanks Roger but I've already got them. the ones on ebay are the wrong width for the TRW pistons.

PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:42 pm
by Bruce Phillips
OK some progress....

Rods are done
YB rods balanced, resized,new small end bushed and new ARP bolts. As they don't have a oil hole like the original pinto rod the guy preping the rods suggested a slight groove near the big end to squirt some oil up to the piston pin.

Crank cleaned up, bullnosed and balanced.

Hope to dummy assemble on the weekend if time permits and get my deck heights. Then machine pistons, add oil feed from oil groove in piston to pin and I'm going to get HPC coating (SO1)on the piston skirts to hold some oil.Good to be getting some progress.

I'll post some pics when done.

PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:56 pm
by Roger Miller
Bruce

If u get HPC on piston tops u dont need oiler.

Good time to get a couple of dowels in crank fro flywheel

PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:34 pm
by Roger Miller
Bruce and all,

I have just ordered some Felpro 8361 pt Head gaskets, from Victorian Performance Wharehouse phone 1300 659 904.

They work out cheaper than STD head gaskets @ $20.

The down side is 8 to 10 week wait.

get your order in.


Image

PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 5:49 pm
by Bruce Phillips
Roger,

I don't understand how does the HPC on the piston top stop the need for an oiler? The machinist would prefer to add the holes (he has a jig to do it) just to be on the safe side. He has shown me some more modern design pistons compared to the TRWs and this is how most are coming out of the factory now.
Just on a side note the guy doing this work, what a great find. Ken Hastings down here put me on to him. He lives 200 meters from my house, and operates out of his garage. Has all the gear there for doing rods (that is is speciality) but also has a flow bench and will machine my pistons up etc. Very nice guy and has helped out a great deal with advice on the engine.
I'm still trying to get details on the head and cam that came with the car. If I have no luck I'll find someone with a cam doctor down here to check it out.

PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 6:41 pm
by Roger Miller
Bruce Phillips wrote:Roger,

I don't understand how does the HPC on the piston top stop the need for an oiler?


The oil is primarily to cool the piston underside.

Adding a thermal barrier to the piston top, achieves the same but better gains else where.

The throw off from crank is enough to oil pin, rings & piston etc :wink:



Image

PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 7:09 pm
by Roger Miller
Bruce Phillips wrote:Roger,

Has all the gear there for doing rods (that is is speciality) but also has a flow bench and will machine my pistons up etc.


Dont forget,....................... u need pistons sticking out of block :!:

PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 8:16 pm
by Danny M
Don't bother with the ceramic coating as it is not necessary and the oiler on a OE rod is not for cooling of the crown or anything so guys stop thinking too much as all it's there for is to lubricate the bore on the thrust side on maximum load but with the amount of oil around in "the fog" it is not really necessary and a bit of overkill as they are not there on a decent aftermarket rod

Danny

PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 10:40 pm
by Bruce Phillips
Thanks Danny.

John who is doing the rods did not like the look of the mods from the Hammill book. The idea of the coating on the skirts was to close up the tolerances in the bore when cold (and hold some oil), as it is not a race engine, in rallys we do a fair ammount of street driving so thought it would be a good idea.
Do you reckon it is worth putting the oil feed in the pistons to lubricate the pin as mentioned earlier? I can't see it would hurt, as I said he already has a jig to do it.

PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 5:41 am
by Danny M
What pistons are you using and how much clearance

Danny

PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:28 am
by Bruce Phillips
Danny

Piston are TRW forged 30 thou over

Clearnace is 4 thou

Buce

PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 4:32 pm
by Danny M
Bruce Phillips wrote:Danny

Piston are TRW forged 30 thou over

Clearnace is 4 thou

Buce


The extra drillings to the gudgeon bosses aren't critical but if he wants to do them let him but I wouldn't ceramic coat them but I would make sure you knock the lumps off the top and make sure you get some weight off them and lighten the rods as much as possible or fit some L18 rods which are longer again
With the rings fit a Total Seal gapless top ring to them as they have a tendency to rattle at the bottom of the bores due to the rod angularity

Danny

PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 6:54 pm
by Roger Miller
.......hes not reading the thread is he :roll:

PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:00 pm
by Danny M
Roger Miller wrote:.......hes not reading the thread is he :roll:


I read it but I can't be bothered going into it too much

Danny

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 9:48 pm
by Bruce Phillips
OK got the cam specs at last,

Cam is a WR40 copy

According to the Kent site this gives valve lift of 11.35 mm on the inlet and 11.81 on the exhaust duration is 295 in and 285 ex timing full lift at 106 degrees.

Comp ratio works out at 10.4 -1

Valves are group 1 44.4 an 38

Any thoughts about this cam? Sounds pretty tame, but I am aiming for a good torque spread as it is a rally engine. I'm happy to change the cam if there is something better out there.

Got the crank scraper and I'm just giving it a touch up to make it fit properly.

PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:52 am
by Tom Murphy
Bruce Phillips wrote: Dropped the block off to be machined on Tuesday, will be using the TRW pistons I showed you when you came over. The crank looks good and is on standard sizes so hope I can get away with a linish. When I get it all back I'll dummy assemble it and see how much I need to take off the pistons. I'm using YB rods so the pistons will sit proud but should have enough meat in them.



Hello Bruce.
I am building a pinto using many of the same components as you. I am using identical TRW forged pistons and 5.05 inch H-beam conrods (same length as the cosworth) The block has had some machined off the top so that the piston is roughly 2.4mm proud of the top of the block after machining off the main lump on top of the piston.If I machine flat with the deck there is roughly 6mm to the top of the first ring. This leaves as far as I can tell only about 4mm of thickness at the middle of the piston. How has you setup worked and do you think that 4mm is enough.

Regards
Tom Murphy

PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:45 am
by Bruce Phillips
Hi Tom,

Sorry I must have missed your post. Your block must have had a fair bit taken off. After taking the lump off my pistons the were only just proud of the block. I can't remember how much but on some of the pistons you can just still see part of the size stampings. When I get a chance I will measure thickness.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:37 pm
by Tom Murphy
Hello Bruce,

Thanks for the reply. We have decided since the last post to get a new block with nothing machined off the top as this would mean we have to machine less off the top of the pistons. The new block is currently in a car and has to be removed and stripped so I cannot do any new measurements.

Regards
Tom

PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 8:24 pm
by Roger Miller
Chaps,

Out of interest, Here is height of, what i considered, a relatively, virgin Pinto block.

Can anyone confirm, with their heights.??

Image