RS Motorsport :: Classic Speed Restored

Are there any differences in using braided lines vs metal lines? Presumably braided will be more expensive? Would I use copper or steel for brake lines?

Was thinking of braided from caliper to inner wing then metal back to firewall then braided into pedal box with braided (or rubber) from reservoirs to pedal box. THis should allow easier pedal box removal.

Comments?

I would say braided where you need flexible and steel everywhere else! That's the way I did my car anyway.

i just used braided line to replace all the rubber ones for better service life and pedal feel.

Cheers Cam.

I should point out that I am starting with a blank sheet i.e. nothing.

Hard line is as cheap as chips to make, I'd only use braided line where flex is needed, between body and suspension and usually between reserviors and master cylinders. Bundyweld (copper coated steel) tubing is readily available from your local Pirtek or similar. I'd consider using braided to the pedal box, like you said to make it easier to install, however, the least number of joints in any hydraulic system is less places of potential failure.

If you are going to invest in tools for flaring I can highly reccomend this setup. I have all these tools and I have done just about every hard line on my F100 with them (Fuel, Auto Cooler, Brakes). They will pretty much cover any flare that you'll ever need to make on tubing in a car. (Cut and paste from a previous post so the links don't appear, Google should turn something up.)

The flare clamp:
Rothenberger 26022 ROFLARE - Compact Flaring Tool
and the double flare tool:
Rothenberger 26034 ROFLARE - Double flare attachment
and a good tube cutter:
Rothenberger 70105 MINICUT 2000 - MINICUT 2000
(I got these from a tool shop on the Gold Coast, too many years ago now to remember the name)

I also have the Summit AN flare tool:
Summit SUM-900311 - Summit® 37 Degree Flare Tool Sets - summitracing.com
(I sometimes clamp this one to the Rothenberger tool when I'm doing 3/8 AN double flares for power steering lines. The 3/8 steel tube is pretty strong and it stops the tube from pushing through the clamps.)

This is very good for bending the brake lines: (pricey for what it is though)
Nitrous Oxide Systems (NOS) 15991NOS - NOS Tubing Benders - summitracing.com

and if you're ever going to do 3/8 lines (fuel, auto cooler, power steering etc) this bender works really well:
Summit SUM-900156 - Summit® Triple Head 180 Degree Tube Benders - summitracing.com

Although the Rothenberger tool is a 45 deg flare, you can use it to create an AN double flare, just finish the flare off in the AN tool.

Preparation of the tube end is critical. I use a countersink bit to clean up the inside, but most importantly for the double flare, the outside of the tube needs a good chamfer. I just use a good file and go about it carefully. Without a chamfer it wont bend in on the double flare mandrel and will usually just push the tube out of the clamp. I'll also use a drop of oil or brake fluid on the tube end just to help the end fold in. Don't forget to clean the line thoroughly before you put it on the car and also don't be afraid to practice, tubing is cheap!

Oh and one final thing...don't forget to put the fitting on the line BEFORE you flare it! Don't ask me how I know this one....

more than once or twice

cheers oz. hard lines with minimal braided it is.

was going to use braided fuel lines through the cabin but maybe if I can get a tool to do both I will hard line that too.

Don't use plain copper tube for the hard line. There is no grade suitable for brake line pressures, temperature and fatigue life.
There is a grade of 10% nickel 90% copper alloy called Kunifer used in salted-road Europe that is suitable; and found std on Volvo's. Looks nice but probably unobtanium here.
Stainless is available and polished looks very nice and meets all the performance needs. A bit hard to work and can be difficult to source. .7 mm wall thickness is what you need. This is a superior material and often found as bridge pipes on racing calipers.

Good old bundy tube in plain or the black or dark green terne coated condition is the most cost effective and easiest to work.

Modern aircraft use titanium tubing for much of their critical fluid transport; its light weight and almost complete immunity to corrosion from inside or out, even compared to 'stainless' makes it ideal. I once looked at using some for brake lines on a job and was quoted a competitive $3 US an inch.

I've got this coming from the US

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnQJIjM0 ... playnext=1

Looks like I need to add expensive tool costs to my brake budget

They're an investment on never having to pay to get another hard line made up for you. Not like they wear out.

I am thinking this line making game is a once off for me. Do it right first time then never make any more. Oh well, part of the car building business I suppose.

Might be cheaper for me to pay Paul to do mine!!!! He can recoup some of his investment that way!!!!!

I can pay him in shirt buttons or used postage stamps......

Rymec.

All you need for jobbing work and probably 20 to 30 bucks.

Works under the car and importantly allows a tube nut close to an existing bend.

It's not always the tool at fault, more than likely the nut behind the wheel. If you don't prep the end of the tube propely then you don't stand a chance.